Handgun selection

[kairo]

ok! this should be fun.

I'm now in the market to purchase a handgun to put on my permit (once I get it). My budget will be around $400. That means $400 or less! I've loved glocks forever, but that pretty much puts them out of the running for now.
Here's what I'm looking for:
roughly 9mm or similar size. Cost of ammo is a consideration. No .45 autos
concealable without tons of effort. i.e. relatively small size.
*reasonably* accurate. I dont need to be able to hit hummingbirds at 100 yards
kick is a non consideration unless the gun is a subcompact.
has to be semi-automatic. no revolvers for the time being
upgradeability would be a plus, but not necessary.
reliability from a name brand

My handgun experience has been limited to a .38 special military issue, a .22 revolver, and a ruger .22 target pistol. Based on those criteria, are there any recommendations anyone would like to make? Any and all information is appreciated!

I decided on 9mm for a few reasons. Cost and availability of ammo was a big one. Second, the military and police both standard issue a 9mm--they probably did it for a reason. I often hear people say the 9mm is "weak" or doesn't have enough knockdown power. I'm pretty sure if I got tagged with one, the fight would be out of me for a while. I figure most criminals would be that way too. I would never put myself in a situation where I was dependent on that handgun to provide protection from a bear or anything like that--I'll upgrade to a .44 revolver if and when I decide to traipse through alaska

thanks!!

 

[NevadaXJ]

Take a look at the Taurus PT 24/7

http://www.taurususa.com/

They carry them at sportsman's warehouse for pretty cheap, I even know a place in carson that has the 9mm for $360.

I have the PT111 and I love it, and would love to get the 24/7 someday. The 9mm holds 17 rounds, has an accessory rail, and the grips fit my hands really well.

 

[cyipher]

Take a look at the Taurus PT 24/7

http://www.taurususa.com/

They carry them at sportsman's warehouse for pretty cheap, I even know a place in carson that has the 9mm for $360.

I have the PT111 and I love it, and would love to get the 24/7 someday. The 9mm holds 17 rounds, has an accessory rail, and the grips fit my hands really well.

TRUST JOHN ON THIS ONE...HES A GUN NUT NOW LOL

 

[Sauce]

taurus 24/7 is a super gay double action gun, go with the Springfield armory xd 9 (my first choice) or a glock!

 

[willyj]

your idea of a 9mm being weak isnt really accurate. now a days it is all about shot placement and BULLET SELECTION.
select a good jacketed hollowpoint like a federal grain hi schock and you will be fine.

as far as a glock you are not looking in the right direction. there are glocks out there for 400 or less (you might have to pony up 450)
you might have to settle on a used one. think of this. are you willing to cheap out on something to save your life? check ADL guns. there is also a Dr Glock or glock shop online. all you would have to do is do an FFL transfer to a local gunstore. some do it for 25-50 bucks.

have you ever shot a 9mm Kairo? i have a 380, 9mm, 40S&W, and a .45ACP
you buy the ammo and ill take you out.

 

[cyipher]

are you willing to cheap out on something to save your life?

In home protection i believe that accuracy really doesnt matter as long as the bullet flies close to straight for the first 20 feet or so.

 

[willyj]

In home protection i believe that accuracy really doesnt matter as long as the bullet flies close to straight for the first 20 feet or so.

thats why i have a 12 gauge with 00 in it!

accuracy always counts. stress shootings really screw with your senses.

 

[kairo]

your idea of a 9mm being weak isnt really accurate.

??
I was saying I disagree with people saying its weak.

Thanks for the ideas guys, I've got some stuff to look into now

 

[willyj]

whoops. misread that one. sorry

the military 9mm does suck though. they use a standard NATO approved ball round. doesnt do too much damage compared to a law enforcement JHP.

offer stands if you like.

 

[kairo]

whoops. misread that one. sorry

the military 9mm does suck though. they use a standard NATO approved ball round. doesnt do too much damage compared to a law enforcement JHP.

offer stands if you like.

yah sounds good. perhaps when it stops raining.

I've been looking hard again at the glock 9mm, and if they feel right, I'd go with a G19 (9mm) or a G27 (.40)

Also looking hard at the beretta 9000s which is either a 9mm or a .40S&W

 

[willyj]

I have a walther P99 in 40S&W. it will mimic the glock in terms of felt recoil.
as far as the 9mm i have a 3rd gen model 915 S&W. very decent gun for the money. just your basic niner

too bad there are no indoor ranges anymore. sucks since now your limited. used to go down to the indoor range off of coney island and try all the guns i wanted to buy. now you just hope the reviews are good and the one you get doesnt suck.

im not a big glock guy but i sure cant bad mouth them. they go bang everytime and are popular as hell for a reason. plus they have a huge aftermarket support! which is always a plus when it comes time for accesories (you jeep guys know all about that ;D)

a friend of mine has a G19 and a G26! great combo. the baby glock is super small and easy to conceal and can use the mag from the 19 duty gun in a pinch.

on a side note. stay away from used berretas, S&Ws and a couple other 40S&W guns from the mid to early 90s. they were built on 9mm frames and the 40 is a bit hotter. essentially a shorter 10mm. frame cracking and wear were common on those guns. the glock kaboom stories usually consisted of lead bullet use or improperly reloaded ammo.

 

[Rafterman]

Just my opinion I could be wrong

Let me start out by saying I ?hate?? the colt 45 and its clones.


But I own several, and carry a Springfield 45.

You are looking for a ?tool? to help you in you pursuit of personal safety. You are looking for the HI/Lift of hand guns. If money was not an option your choices would be several. So to narrow that down lets look at caliber. Let?s base this on one shot one kill data conducted in a meat plant on cattle that were to be slaughtered for beef. You will have to look on line for the data I read it several years ago by Massad Ayob. His data came out as follows:


357 Mag 97% one shot one kill
45 ACP 95% one shot one kill
10 mm?
40ca
357 sig
9 mm
??
I am sorry I don?t remember the exact data on the list, But I know the top two. I may have 10mm and 40 backwards I am not sure. At that point I was done with my research. Most manufacturers will produce most of these calibers.

You don?t want a revolver. A revolver is you?re most cost effective, safe and reliable tool of choice. You can get good quality revolvers for around the price range you are looking for. That eliminates the 357 un less you go with an $800 + dollar gun.

That brings us to the 45 acp. You can get this in revolver or semi auto. You can spend any ware from $250 up, on a semi auto from a myriad of manufactures. Colt, Kimber, S&W, Norinco, Springfield, Ruger, far too many to list, not including the private builders. Out of these you can get any safety configuration you would like. Cocked and locked, double action with de-cocker. again too many to list. So now you are down to personal preference.

My choice is cocked and locked. The most undesirable, un safe method out there.

I am not sure why you are against the 45. I am sure that you have your reasons but if I may point out some things:

You can have it the way you want, IE double action or OH my god.
You will find your best choice of ammunition for the 45 acp
You can get cheap reloads for the 45 that are as cheep as any nine you can buy. I reload in my home for next to nothing.
You can buy a 22 cal mag and barrel for your colt clone and shoot 22?s out of you carry weapon.
A good quality 45 can be had in your price range.
Colt clones have the most available choice of holsters and rigs out there.
You will find more colt clone mechanics out in the market. Cheaper repair
I could go one but these are the most important when choosing a tool.

Again I hate Colt and their clones.

But there is a reason that there are so many.
What ever your choice try to go shoot it first. I can help you with that if you would like. I have a family history of gun smiths and I would not buy a nine but If I had to it would be a glock or baby eagle. The reason the military went with the 9mm is so our military would be able to use the ammo from other military?s. it a U.N. thing. The Special Forces and the FBI have both gone back to the 45 for affectivity.

In my opinion you are telling me you want to put a dana 35 in your jeep over a dana 60 and hit the Rubicon with no tools.:banghead: :hmmrun:

 

[kairo]

good post. You have definately bumped the .45 into my considerations now. The reason I was against them before is that I was under the impression that a gun that size would be
1.) too big to carry
2.) have too much recoil
3.) have very expensive ammunition.

It would appear I was wrong.

I'm not really opposed to revolvers, I have an older .22 9 shot revolver, but I'd like something that carries more than 6 rounds. Revolvers tend to be a bit heavier than the other guns dont they? But I guess that weight would be somewhat negated by the extra ammo capacity of a semi auto.

thanks

 

[kairo]

In my opinion you are telling me you want to put a dana 35 in your jeep over a dana 60 and hit the Rubicon with no tools.:banghead: :hmmrun:

LOL!

 

[Rafterman]

revolvers from S&W can be had in titanium for a good price and you can get up to eight shot. but why so many.you only need eight shots to go with the spray and pray theory.:nuke: I can get you what ever you want to shoot give me a call the decide. I am sure some one will come on here telling me that I am an idiot and have there own points but read both then go shoot. My wife will only shoot my 45 glock. she is a girly girl you know.

 

[kairo]

revolvers from S&W can be had in titanium for a good price and you can get up to eight shot. but why so many.you only need eight shots to go with the spray and pray theory.:nuke: I can get you what ever you want to shoot give me a call the decide. I am sure some one will come on here telling me that I am an idiot and have there own points but read both then go shoot. My wife will only shoot my 45 glock. she is a girly girl you know.

one of the things I dont like about double action revolvers is the amount of pull required to fire off consecutive rounds. A conventional semi auto has consistent and light trigger pull. I can't imagine accuracy would be very good if you have to really "pull" the trigger, rather than just tap it. But once again, I'm only speaking from experience with my .22 revolver vs the .22 automatic.

 

[Rafterman]

In a panic situation you will not notice trigger pull. adrenaline and such will negate the feel of trigger. Higher pull will be better in preventing accidental discharge. Glock will only sell to the public 12 lb pull. A stock S&W or Ruger revolver will have about eight lbs. If you buy some thing and have trigger work done to it, in event you do kill some guy the legal battle that will follow the trigger work you had done will be used against you. IE you were looking for a fight or had work done and was not skilled to use it and accidental shot MR scumbag.

 

[Rafterman]

some semi autos will have double action for the first round and single after that. those are the ones you really need to practice with.

 

[kairo]

what does that mean exactly? That you cock the slide, then fire, fire, fire etc.?

If you're carrying, don't you want to keep the weapon so that there's not a round chambered, but all you have to do is cycle the action then you're ready to go?

 

[Rafterman]

the weapon is carried with the hammer in the SAFE position. you pull the trigger and the that is what brings the hammer back for the first shot. Like a revolver. after the first shot the slide will re load the hammer like a glock.