tri-an-gu-la-ted 4-link for Tony

PizzaJeep

Active member
yay so my suspension is pretty much done as of this morning except for a few little spots i need to clean better, the paint i need to add to the frame, axles and arms and coils. also i need to redo my exhaust and clamp my springs down and weld some nasty holes i cut into my frame with mr.plasma. lastly i need to get my sway bar on, but my dumbass neighbor got excited with the plasma cutter and welder while i was working the other day, so i came home to 2-yes 2- penises on my front axle, cut out of 1/4" and welded, drilled and he assumed that i owuld use them as my sway bar axle inks. in the interest of keeping my jeep not a queer bait jeep. i believe im either going to cut the heads off and turn them into flames, or just start over with a brand new design for the links.

as many of you know i broke my suspension in too many ways during my rubicon trip over the 4th of july weekend. it came home on the trailer thanks to wasted uppers, track bars, bracketry and so forth <see my oopsie thread for more info>.

the idea is to start fresh with a clean well built suspension from the ground up that i will only have to build... once... as in im done doing anything suspension wise for it for as long as i just keep coils. Next summer we'll probably see coilovers front and rear, but the only thing that will really change is that i get to cut off 4 brackets on my axle and built 4 little ones to hold the shock bottoms. otherwise the links WILL not bend or break. i might be able to break the 1/4" bracketry ... but not likely....i might be able to bend or break the 1.5" SOLID lowers... but not likely... i could bend the bridges on both axles.... definately not likely
its there to stay, and furthermore i will have the strength in my front axles now in order to put full hydro on it soon and mount it to the bridges yay

i wanted a suspension that has a naturally stronger design, better control, better articulation. and most of all, one that didnt involve the use of track bars or short arms. both of those components have negative characteristics when your out on the trails that im capable of doing. hence i slipped a triangulated 4 link on both sides. i now have a TRUE 4 link suspension; way super long arms, and angled arms up above that use lateral force to keep the axle located from side to side.

i was blown away at the night and day difference in handling today between the way it was before i went to the 'con and today. it flexes like CRAZY, handles firm with the rubicon express monotube shocks and turns perfectly with just about 0 bumpsteer.

i have pics of the buildup, but i didnt get any good testing ones for ya yet. ill snap those when i get the crap painted flaming red to compliment all of my cute flaming axle bracket art :crazy:

DSCN4167i.JPG

DSCN4172i.JPG

DSCN4174i.JPG

DSCN4175i.JPG

DSCN4183i.JPG

DSCN4184i.JPG

DSCN4185i.JPG
 
Last edited:

PizzaJeep

Active member
that last picture is the front sway bar link mounts that i came up with... they looked like christmas trees so i cut them off.. my neighbor and his plasma cutting penis skills were too fast for me to make a cool new one :(

do you like my cool homemade spring pads??? i guesseted them after i took the picture to add raw strength to them since they are kind of holding total sprung weight
 

Dennis

Administrator
Staff member
PizzaJeep said:
that last picture is the front sway bar link mounts that i came up with... they looked like christmas trees so i cut them off.. my neighbor and his plasma cutting penis skills were too fast for me to make a cool new one :(

do you like my cool homemade spring pads??? i guesseted them after i took the picture to add raw strength to them since they are kind of holding total sprung weight

not my thing. all these jagged edges are only good for your hand to catch on and bleed for a few minutes, that just takes time away from working on the heep. :D
 

kairo

Moderator
Staff member
I'm curious. . . How do you calculate the length and angles of the linked parts? Or do you just wing it and adjust it as problems arise?
 

Sauce

Active member
lookin good tony, how was MR, got any pics? Sorry I didn't make it out, I had to go to a BBQ :(. Did you try the v-crack again?
 

MR.ROCKAPE

New member
Did a bird poop on your axle or are those welds??If those are MIG welds slow the speed down and up the voltage,Gorilla welds might look strong but without penetration those will give you the rubicon blues again :yup: .Did you weld up some chain mounts so when it DOES break again you will have a easier time making trail repairs,Oh WAIT,cut off all of that stuff and just make the whole suspension system out of CHAIN!!!! :eek: (Hello rubicon express have I got an idea for you) :ne_nau:
pizzaboy= :fro: Fabulous
 

PizzaJeep

Active member
Denis said:
not my thing. all these jagged edges are only good for your hand to catch on and bleed for a few minutes, that just takes time away from working on the heep. :D



denis what the hell is the fun in plain boring crap that everyone else has on their vehicles. having a plasma cutter at your disposal and making boring plain mounts is just about completely stupid as opposed to taking 5 minutes out of your time to make something look a little more astetically pleasing. how many other vehicles do you see that have mounts that look like something more than just a half moon shape, completely round, simple and straight to the point. gosh way to bring down the 'wow' factor of the suspension. its just the same arguement as why you dont see every person on a trail driving a CJ versus a ZJ versus a TJ versus an XJ. who wants to be the same???

flames= my personal touch to make it MINE and different than anyone elses ive seen before.

besides they invented dremels so that you could round off the sharp edges of your axles so that the dumbass onlookers that want to touch the tips dont bleed to death :yup:
 

PizzaJeep

Active member
rockape said:
Did a bird poop on your axle or are those welds??

sorry.. i suck at welding really pretty beads... i got a lot of practice over the last week, but it still takes years of welding to be able to make astetically pleasing welds. in order for me to make mine presentable, i use a nifty took called a hand grinder. it works wonders...

i agree on the wire and voltage settings. throughout the entire project i was running my welder at about 8 for voltage and 3-4 for wire speed. penetration is the most important thing here without a doubt and it was my highest concern when i was doing most of the critical welding myself. i left the frame welding and the upside down welding to my .. experienced guide... throughout the project.

they look like crap but after having them examined, theyre strong and will hold

the flames are supposed to take your attention away from the fact that i couldnt keep a steady evenly pulsed weld puddle to save my life...well maybe i could, but im not used to the back and forth motion quite yet. tho i did find it funny that now whenever i make a pepperoni pizza at work, i start at the bottom and go across the pizza in a zig-zag half moon pattern..hmm
 

PizzaJeep

Active member
kairo said:
I'm curious. . . How do you calculate the length and angles of the linked parts? Or do you just wing it and adjust it as problems arise?


there was a little bit of method to the madness but most of it was pretty straight forward. with the lower arms, i took eye to eye measurements from my lower mounts axle side to my skid plate. much later after the axles were out, cleaned up and everything was ready to be built, i made my lowers first, threw the axle underneath with the lowers losely bolted in, i put the axle up at ride height with jack stands, set the pinion angle with my floor jack then measured the eye to eye length for the uppers

the front was a little more difficult. what made the rear nice was that the frame side upper link mounts are part of the RE x-member. therefore i had the angles already halfway there and all i had to do was make it so that on the axle side, the mounts were as close to an even triangle as possible. with the front, i had to create the frame side upper bracket. the issues with getting a good angle and the length that was similar to that of the lowers(there can only be as much as a 30% difference in length between the uppers and lowers, unless you want wierd handling characteristics- the closer to even lengths the better), i needed to not hit the oil pan, and the exhaust downpipe was in the way. making a bracket stout enough, outside the frame and angled as closely as possible took a bit of thinking to decide what would be best. i went for getting the upper arms as long as possible, then took the angles as far as i could.
my front uppers ended up being exactly 70% length of the lowers, and the angle is 33 degrees(perfect is 45 degrees). my front has no adverse handling side effects so im satisfied. the side angles need to be a certain way also- you cant have the lowers pointing up too far while the lowers are pointing down too far... it gets complicated having to factor in that much crap

i do have adjustability in that i can move the axle to one side or the other a bit, and also move the pinion angle up or down a bit since my uppers are adjustable, which is good because you definately need some amount of adjustability. for the most part when you do a mock up of how it will sit when all done, be as accurate as possible as far as exactly where the axle will be. you want it COMPLETELY centered, the pinion as close to what you want it and the axle to be exactly where it will sit when the springs are in. taking good measurements means you have more accurate arm lengths and that needs to be just about exact since there is so much possible flex with this suspension.

other considerations include angling the joints so that they are as close as possible to completely center with the bracket that it will sit in. my lower arms are welded with about a 11 degree offset since the distance from both arms on the axle side and the xmember side are about 1 foot of difference(if i remember correctly, the axle length from passenger side lower arm to driver side lower is like 40" while the skid plate distance from lower to lower is like 30")(estimate, because the math doesnt quite add up in the last parenthesis)

i also made it so that my lower arms are up about 1 inch higher than completely centered and notched for the joint. looking at the arms, they sit that much higher since i welded the joints on with an offset notch, therefore they cut in at an angle. the centerline of the joint is about the bottom line for the arm tubing.
 

Dirty Harry

Moderator
Staff member
PizzaJeep said:
denis what the hell is the fun in plain boring crap that everyone else has on their vehicles. having a plasma cutter at your disposal and making boring plain mounts is just about completely stupid as opposed to taking 5 minutes out of your time to make something look a little more astetically pleasing. how many other vehicles do you see that have mounts that look like something more than just a half moon shape, completely round, simple and straight to the point. gosh way to bring down the 'wow' factor of the suspension.

I find it kind of amusing that someone who wants to be so different drives a TJ. Yeah, you don't see many of those on the trail. :lolrun: As for the mounts, you spend so much time on here trying to convince everyone that you are "hardcore" Tony, but if you paid attention a little better you would notice that the real hardcore crowd isn't too concerned about the "wow" factor, just whether things are functional or not. I am glad to hear that you are pleased with your suspension but if you were less of a smartass when people call you out on your "flamer" brackets and crappy welds, you might be able to learn something from some of the people on here.
 
Last edited:

rusty_tlc

New member
Just do what makes you happy. To hell with what people think. Good or bad.

Edit: Of course it has to work other wise you wind up looking like a fool. :D Not that I would know about that.
 
Last edited:

throttleboy

New member
PizzaJeep said:
sorry.. i suck at welding really pretty beads... i got a lot of practice over the last week, but it still takes years of welding to be able to make astetically pleasing welds. in order for me to make mine presentable, i use a nifty took called a hand grinder. it works wonders...

i agree on the wire and voltage settings. throughout the entire project i was running my welder at about 8 for voltage and 3-4 for wire speed. penetration is the most important thing here without a doubt and it was my highest concern when i was doing most of the critical welding myself. i left the frame welding and the upside down welding to my .. experienced guide... throughout the project.

they look like crap but after having them examined, theyre strong and will hold

the flames are supposed to take your attention away from the fact that i couldnt keep a steady evenly pulsed weld puddle to save my life...well maybe i could, but im not used to the back and forth motion quite yet. tho i did find it funny that now whenever i make a pepperoni pizza at work, i start at the bottom and go across the pizza in a zig-zag half moon pattern..hmm
first off if you know you suck at welding what are you doing building a link suspension that will be driven on the street?? second if penetration was your HIGEST concern i think you should have been using some thing a little bigger than a 110 machine!! third who ever EXAMINED those welds and told you their strong :disagree: i sure hope its not the guy teaching you to weld!! if you did'nt pre-heat the axle tubes and center section before you welded that bracket to the axle with that small machine chances are pretty good its going to come apart again lets just hope its on the trail and not the freeway at 60 MPH!!
 

PizzaJeep

Active member
throttleboy said:
first off if you know you suck at welding what are you doing building a link suspension that will be driven on the street?? second if penetration was your HIGEST concern i think you should have been using some thing a little bigger than a 110 machine!! third who ever EXAMINED those welds and told you their strong :disagree: i sure hope its not the guy teaching you to weld!! if you did'nt pre-heat the axle tubes and center section before you welded that bracket to the axle with that small machine chances are pretty good its going to come apart again lets just hope its on the trail and not the freeway at 60 MPH!!

throttleboy you should pay attention more. i suck at making pretty looking welds, i didnt say i suck at making good penetrating welds. i had the welds examined by buddies at some local machine shops, fellow wheelers, and my good friends at my wonderful exhaust shop. i do not have a 110 machine. if you were paying the least amount of attention to anything ive been writing over the last 2 months, youd know its a millermatic 175- which is the 220v model. lastly, preheating is for cast iron. no i did infact NOT preheat the cast iron centersections , but im not relying in the least bit on the welds on the cast iron. the welding on the tubes which is made of regular (mild) steel, is where the bridges get about 90% of their strength and durability from.

if youd like to test my welds to see if theyre strong and disprove me, be my guest the next time you get out on the trails- ill be there and waiting for you to look like a dumbass when you realize the keeper of the flames' shiznit is on time, if you know what im throwin down on your biznotch assizzle, throttle :fro:
 
Last edited:

throttleboy

New member
PizzaJeep said:
throttleboy you should pay attention more. i suck at making pretty looking welds, i didnt say i suck at making good penetrating welds. i had the welds examined by buddies at some local machine shops, fellow wheelers, and my good friends at my wonderful exhaust shop. i do not have a 110 machine. if you were paying the least amount of attention to anything ive been writing over the last 2 months, youd know its a millermatic 175- which is the 220v model. lastly, preheating is for cast iron. no i did infact NOT preheat the cast iron centersections , but im not relying in the least bit on the welds on the cast iron. the welding on the tubes which is made of regular (mild) steel, is where the bridges get about 90% of their strength and durability from.

if youd like to test my welds to see if theyre strong and disprove me, be my guest the next time you get out on the trails- ill be there and waiting for you to look like a dumbass when you realize the keeper of the flames' shiznit is on time, if you know what im throwin down on your biznotch assizzle, throttle :fro:
first let me tell you this pizza boy your welding skills suck period!! why dont you let me know which machine shop told you those welds are strong so i dont make the misstake in going there when i need some machine work done!!i had a MM 175 and i can tell you first hand that machine do'es not have the power to get good penetration on your axle tubes, or your center section or anything else thicker than 3/16"s or 1/4"...look inside your MM 175...it dont even show a setting for 1/4" when using gas...if i remember right!!and as far as knowing what your throwen down... it sounds like a challange that i gladly except...so the next time i get a chance to go to the moon rocks your invited to come out and get schooled in rock crawling !! oh and BTW rockape wont be spoten for you this time like when you ran the V ;) !!and lastly, we only meet once for about 5 mins...remember that when your using words like dumbass ;) !!
 

MR.ROCKAPE

New member
UH-Oh!!!I think you made an enemy now pizzaboy!I suggest you apologize now,and hope ThrottleBiznatch dont come looking for you and give you the :buttkick: and/or :gapteeth: .Or better yet just :bowdown:
Hey Throttle,we going to Pizza Night?? :yup: COME AWN!!I bet you could get some free pizza. :rofl:
And pizzaboy,Im sure those welds dont look that bad in person(I heard internet pics add ten pound to your GORILLA BEADS/EAGLE POOPS) :rolleyes:
 
Top